1. Balance… 3.5e had none high level play devolved into glorified gun fights where generally the first caster to get off a spell wins. Tactics involved casting your best ‘I win’ spells in sequence until enemy fails a save. I prefer less nukes and more patriot missiles myself so i dont mind the damage levels being dropped. and save or be fucked being removed. The changes in

2. Options… are you kidding me for all the talk of options in combat blah blah… most casters used the same offensive spells in most fights in 3.5 repeatedly… and why not? When was limited wish or polymorph a bad choice. Imean even James spoke of the mornign ritual oof spellups again how often did that lineup change…
Your complaining about the loss of an illusion of choice. As for 3.5x non-casters dont make me laugh weapons and armor options a few tricks but ultimately just building blocks to perfect a single attack mode.
2b. GodEmperorLeto says the decision making is gone i think what hes referring to is build-making… decisions made out of combat that affect combat. I fully understand that concept but i personally feel deciding what do do when in combat is the definition of tactics thats what soldiers do.
Build-making is what the R&D wing of the military do build the better tank or gun. Its a preference personally i like the soldier method ill grab my eq and prep with skills (at wills) and enjoy being challenged by application… I can understand why builders wouldnt like 4e as much YET.
2c. Its NEW 3e didnt start out a plethora of options either it grew, prestige classes, feats, spells, exotic weapons came in supliments. As 4e gets more books out with more powers and feats builders will i guess be happier.

Rituals i like em… wasnt thrilled with em at first truth be told but as a friend poitned out the fill in all thr utility spells that would never get cast cause ppl need to cast hidelife every morning and fireball and timestop and polymorph

Also i didnt like the magnesium flare concept of 3.5 boom mage every major fight ended with the need for 8 hours of rest so teh mage could restock spells up…:P

But either way no system is flawless…
i sometimes miss the R&D intensity of 3.5 but i also like not having to do addmath and projections to have a viable(longterm)… tactically useful character. And i like tactical combat over nuclear war.

One major thing that kills me for 4e, however, is with a lot of the changes, it feels like a D&D mini game that is wholly geared toward combat but little roleplay. The character classes are all cookie-cutter, and not nearly as infinitely versatile as 3.X. A party of all fighters would be boring in 1st, 2nd, and 4th editions. A party of fighters in 3.X could have a samurai, a Norman knight, a Mongol horse-archer, a yeoman archer, an axe-wielding Viking, a Renaissance fencer, etc., all with different feats, weapons, and abilities, all the same class.

But what I really find disappointing is that long-term consequences for choices and actions are now gone. With per encounter and at will abilities, a lot of the decision-making is gone, and you can run on the fly. Part of playing a wizard in previous editions was ACTING like one–preparing potions, scribing scrolls, and brewing flasks of oil and alchemists fire. Instead of wasting spells, a wizard can use his brain to get out of situations. But the new system almost resets itself after every combat. Yeah, it’s easy and fun, but not necessarily better. It’s not streamlined, it really IS dumbed down, despite what all of the 4e apologists claim. It is a more advanced version of the D&D minis game, which is ironic. D&D was originally a more advanced mini wargame back in the 70s. But a return to roots isn’t necessarily adviseable. And besides, using up resources, making strategic decisions, sacrificing abilities, were part of the game. To me, everythings been OVERsimplified to a fault.

Yeah, you can roleplay amazing situations. You can do that for any game. But I’ve played GURPS, RIFTS, White Wolf, Ars Magica, Traveller, West End Star Wars, the list goes on, and while 3.X was my favorite gaming engine (despite my hatred for Wizards’ waste-of-money supplements and splatbooks), 4e is probably my least. I’d rather play something else entirely.

Nevermind the fact that without support a system stagnates and players become hard to find.

And to wrap it up, I’d love to play a new and interesting iteration of D&D. Just as soon as they make one. Until then I have every right to be disappointed with 4th Ed.

Seriously, gaining a level and the ability to push a mob 5 feet and do slightly more stupid tiny amounts of damage just isn’t impressive. It’s not exciting, it’s not a major milestone of advancement, it’s extra particle effects. Woo hoo. The way 4e plays at a high level is exactly like the way it plays at a low level but with bigger numbers on everything. I think that’s boring as hell.

Please direct me to the page that says cool ideas and good DMing may only occur in 4th edition games.

Typical 3.5 game: Close with enemy and repeat the same tactic, every battle. Polymorph and beat down, or save or die effects, or chain-fighter trip AoO to death. Alright, fun for a bit. The real fun came from trying out your new builds.

4E: The fun comes from the encounter itself. Bad guys move around, good guys move around. Crap, that goblin wizard guy throws up a concealing benefit to his allies and lets them shift further every time we miss them? Eladrin uses his teleport to get over there and starts pushing his ass into the rogues. Rogues sneak, using the cover in the room to leap out and sneak attack the enemy, who goes into a rage and starts doing more damage, so the fighter leaps across the tables to challenge him and wipe out minions with a single swing. Next fight? Totally different. Skills matter, abilities each can be used -differently-, its not a repeat of the last encounter, ever.

The only time I could see it being boring is if the DM was lazy and didnt put any props or dressing in an encounter space. Fighting on blank tiles would be boring, but every encounter is fresh and fun.

For example, in our first session the PCs ended up fighting a group of goblins half way up the stairs of a tower, with an open middle section. The Warlord uses an ability that allows him to switch places with an adjacent enemy, setting the enemy up for the paladin to bull-rush him off the steps for a tumble. The big guy they are chasing can’t flee up the steps because the wizard has him slowed with his ray of cold, making movement up the steps all but impossible, giving the paladin time to leap from one step to the next and lock in place, with the cleric teleporting past the group to a higher ledge to take out minions with his spear and grant healing surges to the paladin. No other encounter was like that, but each was totally different and completely fun.

Your major disappointment seemed to be damage dealing. At 2nd level a warlock can dish out 20ish damage with an encounter ability. Rogues can easily nail things for 1d6 + dex + sneak attack every round (which with one feat becomes +2d8 at 1st level). Strikers deal the massive damage now. Wizards control the tough guys, moving them into controllable positions and they also wipe out minions. Minions are not weak, but they have 1 hit point. They are generally worth only a fraction of the EXP, which means they are used as filler to make some encounters more dynamic. They have a lot of the abilities of the big buys, they are just as hard to hit, but wizards make paste out of them. 1d6 + int mod to a group of four guys with 1 hitpoint? They are gone, and it leaves the rest of the group to clean up the mess.

Even with encounters generally taking more rounds of combat, the game seems to move a lot faster paced and combat is a lot less flipping through the book (especially if you write your abilities on stat cards). The game also can have more realistic objectives.. Saving the princess before she is murdered or chasing down a fleeing band of orcs before they alert their army. These things can be countered by the PCs not having to take an eight hour rest when the wizard runs out of spells, since his “dailies” aren’t his main attacks any more, they are just the really nice thing he can do every now and then.

Also, with retraining options every level it really helps you try out new things without getting stuck in a build.

In my opinion, 4th edition is better if you prefer to play strategy. 3rd edition had way more options before you play the game, but with the tactics involved 4th has way more options in each encounter, with your abilities allowing to do some pretty awesome stuff.